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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:15 pm 
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Posts: 1025
Hoot Owl....great business promotion for SC. I bet a lot of potential advertisers are just lining up to have their business trashed over a personal issue you might have with them.
And yes...you did miss the point of my posts as well as JF's posts.

If your going to come to someone's home....or in this case, SC's website, at least have the common courtesy to only crap in the bathroom instead of all over the house. (Thx JF)

I think I will sit back and let SC speak for herself.
I am afraid that nobody that matters is right.
This just may be a losing battle that isn't worth fighting for anymore.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:57 am 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 7687
Location: Lakewood
frogger wrote:
chickaree wrote:
I have been mocked and sneered at by both sides for advocating for higher quality posts. Most of is have transgressed at one point or another. To try to draw political lines on this issue is laughable. Look to your own behavior and don't try to pretend that you have to be rude just because others are. I doubt that any of your mothers bought the "everyone is doing it" argument.


I would like you to give me ONE example of where jfacai1 has ever been rude to you or anyone on this forum.
He stated a fact.
He has always supported you in your endeavor to raise the bar of civility just as I have.
Yes....we have all been guilty at one time or another of less than stellar behavior but an accusation directed at one of the most level headed, steady and calm individuals on this forum is beyond me.

Perhaps you might consider reviewing JF's posts to see if there is actually any real evidence of what you accuse him of chickaree.

As for my whining.....
Do a handful of you really believe that my voice is all SC is hearing?
Do you think so poorly of our host that you would believe that one person could sway her basic belief system?
Do you really believe she is acting in any manner other than what she really believes is best for her current members, future members and the people who pay to advertise here?
She is running a business that needs to cater to a lot of wants and needs.
She walks a very fine line.
But the real bottom line is that she bought this website to earn a living.
To earn a living, she needs advertisers. In order for the advertisers to benefit, she needs new members.
People who feel free to speak their mind in places that have , since the beginning of this website, been designated as civil.
No one has ever said that if you want to go to the ring and call me every name in the book that you can't do that. It won't be altered, deleted or removed. Nor will you be banned.
The preference was simply to take it to the ring.
How hard is that?
As an advertiser here....I am not prepared to ask my customers to come here if I know they will be treated with disrespect all over the website.
It reflects poorly on me, my community and this website.
And this website is suffering. Whether many of you want to acknowledge it or not.

nuf said. (by me) :) JMO
This is just my take, but I'm pretty sure chickaree was saying "you" as a general you, not as specifically addressed to any one person, since she referred to "both sides doing it" in her first sentence. In any case, the post immediately above hers is archer's which would make her reply more directly addressed to archer than jf1acai, if she was making it specific and not general. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong chickaree, I'm basing that on how you've written previous posts.

You make some good points chickaree and frogger, thank you. Chickaree is right, she has tried to ask for better choices, and she has posted opinions that clearly indicate that she doesn't follow any one party line but is a thoughtful, independent thinker, and I've seen her put down by both sides for it. All frogger and jf1acai were trying to say, if I haven't misunderstood, is exactly what I've been trying to say for 4 months now. I see them fully admitting, and archer admitting, and chicakree stating, that it's both sides doing it so why the vitriol? Why is there so much defensiveness and justification for our own choices and retaliation? I keep hearing from both sides that they don't start it, they merely defend themselves - well, somebody has to start it now don't they? I see very little introspection, admitting they have a part, and choosing to do better at not taking things so personally and going off half-cocked. Why is it that we can't listen to what the other person has to say, take a moment to consider it from their point of view, and agree or disagree based on an objective analysis of the data?

I would like to clarify that I didn't actually buy this website to make a living, I bought it because I loved it and I didn't want anyone else taking over and ruining it, and because I wanted to make a difference in the community, not at all because I needed to earn money doing it. Everything I've earned I've put back into the site or directly into the community - I've not made a profit at all to date. Not that I wouldn't mind making some, because I have some cool projects I'd like to do around the house :) (mama needs a new grand fireplace, energy efficient windows, and solar panels), but serving the community, getting my advertisers who've believed in this site and been loyal and supportive for so long lots more business so they can continue to thrive, and being appreciated for my efforts with a thanks now and then is thanks enough.

That being said, if the advertisers chose to leave, I could not sustain the cost of this site, so yes, I do have to protect its interests. Hoot Owl, what you posted crossed the line. If you've patronized a business and been wronged, you have every right to air that publicly if dealing with the business privately beforehand didn't bring justice, because we are here to serve the community first and be that watchdog if necessary, but to bash a business just because you don't like the owner is wrong. All we've ever asked is that people self-moderate, and try to post in the most appropriate forum. Is it perfect? No, tempers will run hot and people won't pay attention to details like it being the Campfire. Things being moved is common on boards such as this, what isn't common is that threads are never locked, posts aren't deleted, and people aren't banned, and almost all of the content is freely available to guests so we've never forced people to register - they join here because they want to. This site is moderated, just not as heavily, and because of that adherence to those methods, it provides a unique challenge in walking the line between freedom of speech and harassment and abuse. If you don't want to make the effort yourselves, then it's put upon the admins and mods to do so instead, otherwise this site goes down.

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Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken. ~Frank Herbert

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:31 pm
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Thank you, ScienceChic. You characterized my post perfectly. You run this board with grace and good humor and I am saddened when you hospitality is abused. If we would all just look to our own posts and refuse to participate in childish or malicious conversations then we wouldn't have to discuss this ad nauseum.

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" If it's one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, 'The good outnumber you, and we always will," Patton Oswalt



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