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 Post subject: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:55 am
Posts: 1365
I think the reason I posted all this stuff recently about discussing how we discuss, I did not communicate clearly what I wanted from this business and perhaps if I state it better, I may get it. I would like a forum where people that are very curious about the political and social systems can gather and discuss such things. Still with the understanding that we are all biased, I would like a place where those that are both curious about the perspectives of both those that share their convictions and those that do not. This is a place that people go to ask questions and try and influence people.

I think I may be asking for another forum, we can call it the River Camp. In this forum we have the decorum of a typical well run high school or college classroom where many perspectives may be allowed. Anyone can be the teacher/professor or the student looking for a teacher/professor. This is polysci and econ class.

I suggest this to be added on top of the current forums which seem to well defined themes that SC and the crew have formed and allowed to mature into their own. The Ring seems to be a place for extremes, the poop jokes and the extra threats. The courthouse is where there is going to be heated arguments, insults, facts mixed with strong opinion and regret. I suggest the rivercamp (because I came up with the idea) and this is the place for well informed or educational discussions on political science and economic. I feel that there may be enough demand and many posters from the courthouse could perhaps have their finest moments in such a forum. I suggest that this is a forum you can be banned from temporarily for a month based on one request and a 285bound crew agreement. I would also be fine fielding those requests as to have the forum self moderate, but with time outs determined by one or a number of people or a rotating moderator. I realize this is just another layer, but any thoughts, no one has to give up anything in the courthouse to make this happen. I will repost this in its own thread, this post comes from page 5 of "The last few days, any better?"

In the end I often have legitimate questions about how society is functioning or ideas about what I think we could do and I am looking for a place to discuss that. I ask for it here, because despite all that we see in the courthouse, we have a reasonable group of people that has even bothered to think about this stuff. I may not agree, but I find that your comments can open my mind even further, help me refine thoughts or plant seeds for new ideas. I am saying I have seen enough passionate banter on here, that I value some alternative perspectives. So thanks, and I am curious if anyone else feels similar.

I could then be an ass in the courthouse and a nerd in rivercamp. Feel free to come up with a better name.

I have not given up yet, there is a solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:36 pm 
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Posts: 1627
The solution is to behave like a grownup in the Courthouse.

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" If it's one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, 'The good outnumber you, and we always will," Patton Oswalt



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 Post subject: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:24 am 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:09 pm
Posts: 990
on that note wrote:
I think the reason I posted all this stuff recently about discussing how we discuss, I did not communicate clearly what I wanted from this business and perhaps if I state it better, I may get it. I would like a forum where people that are very curious about the political and social systems can gather and discuss such things. Still with the understanding that we are all biased, I would like a place where those that are both curious about the perspectives of both those that share their convictions and those that do not. This is a place that people go to ask questions and try and influence people.

I think I may be asking for another forum, we can call it the River Camp. In this forum we have the decorum of a typical well run high school or college classroom where many perspectives may be allowed. Anyone can be the teacher/professor or the student looking for a teacher/professor. This is polysci and econ class.

I suggest this to be added on top of the current forums which seem to well defined themes that SC and the crew have formed and allowed to mature into their own. The Ring seems to be a place for extremes, the poop jokes and the extra threats. The courthouse is where there is going to be heated arguments, insults, facts mixed with strong opinion and regret. I suggest the rivercamp (because I came up with the idea) and this is the place for well informed or educational discussions on political science and economic. I feel that there may be enough demand and many posters from the courthouse could perhaps have their finest moments in such a forum. I suggest that this is a forum you can be banned from temporarily for a month based on one request and a 285bound crew agreement. I would also be fine fielding those requests as to have the forum self moderate, but with time outs determined by one or a number of people or a rotating moderator. I realize this is just another layer, but any thoughts, no one has to give up anything in the courthouse to make this happen. I will repost this in its own thread, this post comes from page 5 of "The last few days, any better?"

In the end I often have legitimate questions about how society is functioning or ideas about what I think we could do and I am looking for a place to discuss that. I ask for it here, because despite all that we see in the courthouse, we have a reasonable group of people that has even bothered to think about this stuff. I may not agree, but I find that your comments can open my mind even further, help me refine thoughts or plant seeds for new ideas. I am saying I have seen enough passionate banter on here, that I value some alternative perspectives. So thanks, and I am curious if anyone else feels similar.

I could then be an ass in the courthouse and a nerd in rivercamp. Feel free to come up with a better name.

I have not given up yet, there is a solution.


JMO......The solution is to be civil in the Courthouse and and ass in the Ring(which has been SPECIFICALLY structured for that purpose) Your suggestion is redundant,at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:33 am 
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Posts: 5205
OTN I think that is a good suggestion. Like a general academic forum for more theoretical discussion of broad social and economic issues instead of current hot topic political issues?

Like capitalism, free markets, taxes, environment, unions, income equality, economic theory etc etc. Is that what you had in mind? You have to make it boring enough to keep out the rift-raft but not so boring that nobody participates. :)

I've tried to start general topics like these before and they usually die with no responses, or get buried below the daily flood of political topics. I'm skeptical you would get a lot of participation, but you have to try to find out.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:43 am 
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How about instead of "rivercamp" we call it "Pinecam"?

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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:50 am
Posts: 6756
LOL wrote:
OTN I think that is a good suggestion. Like a general academic forum for more theoretical discussion of broad social and economic issues instead of current hot topic political issues?

Like capitalism, free markets, taxes, environment, unions, income equality, economic theory etc etc. Is that what you had in mind? You have to make it boring enough to keep out the rift-raft but not so boring that nobody participates. :)

I've tried to start general topics like these before and they usually die with no responses, or get buried below the daily flood of political topics. I'm skeptical you would get a lot of participation, but you have to try to find out.

I would participate daily. Maybe the regulars around here who thrive on beating each other up (or welcome a daily beatdown themselves) won't participate because there's no room for their "style" in a civil discussion, but it could draw in intelligent people who normally just lurk and marvel at the hatefest. Some people may actually want to discuss economic theory (supply side vs demand side) or wealth redistribution vs individual epowerment without getting mired down with "you conservatiives are this and you liberals are that and this guy you support is socialist/teabagger".

Just look at some of the threads we currrently have going... many of them are dominated by just two or three people hurling insults through multiple pages. Is that really all that interesting? Will that bring in new voices who may actually want to learn something? This media we are stuck with rarely ever teaches us anything, it only tells us what THEY think we should know. How about we educate ourselves with topics that would require actual research instead of copy and paste opinions from political partisan hacks? All I would want is to be able to do that without someone dropping a turd in the punchbowl halfway through. Anyone not wanting to participate could stay in the Courthouse and continue as usual if that's what gets you off.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:55 am
Posts: 1365
OK folks, then why don't people bone up and say what they are implying directly.

I agree, the place for what I request is the Courthouse, that was what I expected of it.

The posters on average DO NOT AGREE and make the courthouse a sh** show. The admin has said that they will let the people decide and that that there is very little difference between the courthouse and the ring, I am honest not even really sure what the difference is.

So your response would be reasonable, but there is NO ONE with enough or taking enough power to make it happen.

All I am asking for is a professional place to disccuss politics and economics. It is NOT the ring, and despite anyone's desires to date, it is not the Courthouse.

The admin kept asking for real suggestions, I am just continueing to make them.

If YOU ALL collectively make some momentum as I have tried for days to make the courthouse a civil place, then it will happen. The admin even implied it could be enforced, but no one collectively wants that. It is not happening and to post like the last week or months or years have not happened it just silly. It almost sounds like a parent in denial that their kid is sleeping with every guy in the class. It's happening folks. and it will, I was just seeking change.

I was also trying to let everyone keep this sh** show because many seem to love it and also get what there is some demand for.

It would only be lots of work if a bunch of a holes from the courthouse come in and pretend rivercamp is the ring.

What is wrong with a place to talk about politics and econ civilly?

The posters have put this site in a blender. I do not a this point even see the logic in keeping the ring if the consensus is that I am wasting my time. Just accept a few starred letters, that seems to be the only difference.

I am trying to do good here for a few folks, myself included. really the only people that need to be on board to begin with is the admin. The posters will follow, I will play teacher/moderator for the first month, whatever.

You folks ever try stuff and fail here and there, it's how you move forward? Thanks for the replies, I just find them hard to believe after all the recent talk, just sounds like denial.

I think if done, the reasonably mature people would end up there and the 4th graders can stay here and speculate about what it is like to go to high school or college....is that Courthouse enough for you.

In fact since things around here are not changing, I really feel that it is the actual lack of intelligence that is the reason so many people cannot have well thought out discussions, many people in the courthouse don't actually even understand the issues they are talking about them. So in reality, I want a new forum to weed out all the really weak minds here and so I can spend more time talking with the strong ones. Not strong personalities, they are kinda just a tool, I am looking for strong minds, the ones that make the plan. The kind of people that put stuff forward and GASP, answer questions in response.

Flame away, weak minds that just want to sling sh**. Again, just trying to stay in theme with appropriate courthouse language as defined by the dumb ass community (did it again) that has collectively decided that my last two paragraphs are the best way to interact with other idiots (idiots).

I am curious, did the last two courthouse theme paragraphs help to make my point any clearer, for bags of crap (did it again) that always want a dose of venom with their BS?

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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:40 am 
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Posts: 3720
I believe you're putting too much thought into this. The forum is what it is because a forum is defined by the people posting. The rules here are looser than some forums, tighter than others. I visit various forums for various reasons.

Many of these "let's improve the forum" discussions come down to a discussion about intelligence. I don't think you are correct in assuming that the more belligerent posters lack intelligence. I believe they lack entertainment. They're bored. Trolling relieves that boredom.

The courthouse is the place for intelligent discussion. It's your choice whether to ignore or respond to the belligerent posts. If you get no responses to your intellectually advanced discussion proposals, it's probably because nobody thought it would be any fun to respond.

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"Whatever you are, be a good one." ~ Abraham Lincoln


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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:23 pm
Posts: 16687
Location: Colorado
Here is my opinion in a nut shell. I have been moderating and set up this site originally with JMC. In part, we set up all this up because we disagreed (understatement) with PC and their banning, shutting down threads, and the massive disappearing posts (no exaggeration, we are talking hundreds here). We set out to prove it can be done and it was. I have tremendous experience as we have other sites on communities bound that I consult on.

So, here it is. It is about organization. The way I run a forum? I just organize it because the nature of a community forum is different than a other forums. It is set up for a whole community that has different ideas. You want a yoga forum only, go to a yoga site but these forums are set up for a community. You should always keep your own political ideas out of it and just organize. So, we have different places on the forum for all those who want to talk and all are welcome. Except those who are out to disrupt the forum (trolls).

The reason (originally that there was a massive Exodus from PC's study to the courthouse was that PC did not know how to handle controversy and made their users feel guilty for saying anything controversial. And handled the controversy by telling them what to say and how to say it. (like "be civil") it can be fun for some to not "be civil". (the ring") But you make a choice to be in the ring and we made that totally clear before going in there. You make a place for all and organize accordingly.

The people will come where they like and feel comfortable. Free market.

Cinnamongirl
Owner of Communities Bound

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 Post subject: Re: Another Idea.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:50 am
Posts: 6756
CinnamonGirl wrote:

The people will come where they like and feel comfortable. Free market.

Isn't that the point of these forums? We have two places to talk politics, court cases, and news where almost anything goes and you can come in with any bad attitude blast whoever you want with insults.

Here's an analogy (maybe not the best).... lets say you enjoy going to a bar to have drinks with friends and talk politics or whatever. The problem is, the only bars within a reasonable distance are too noisy to talk... loud karaoke, obnoxious bands, loud TVs, etc.. If you just want to relax and talk, how "comfortable" would you be in that environment? It's the same think for this place... there's just so much noise, diversions, distractions, and general disruptions from people with so much anger that very few threads ever result in positive discussions. You may be surprised at how many new voices join into the mix when there is an expectation of adult civility. Is it really that hard to ad another section for adults?


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