It's no secret that I'm a sympathizer for Arabs and Muslims.

That said - Israel deserves respect.

The country of Israel has contributed very disproportionately to world development.

Their irrigation and technological advancements are extroidinary by any measure.
(I'd add a note here - most of the irrigation techniques being used in Arabia, today --- were developed in aisrael)

Although I understand what motivated Helen Thomas's idiotic remarks earlier this year, I do think they were out of line. I also feel there are far more appropriate choices for CAIR (Bill Moyers or Christiane Amanpour, for example).

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khalas ---- this is a waste of time.


"...bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. education & free discussion are the antidotes of both. "

---- Thomas Jefferson

Thank you Bud. I want to comment further on the USS Liberty. As an American and as a Veteran, I, too was disappointed in the cover-up of this tragic attack on the USS Liberty, but until and unless that full documentation ever sees daylight, and we know the full story, I still will be Pro-Israel as an ally, with respect for the Biblical references as pointed out, and especially considering the alternative, which unfortunately Baileybud, would be support for the Muslim world. Sorry, but I will stick with Israel. Just my Opinion.

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BODY PIERCING BY MODEL 1911

I don't invest in Gold, I invest in lead.

Affiliate Site: http://www.AHWbound.com

This is a favorite for the religious right. It's used out-of-context and abused, regularly.

The religious right often forgets that this promise was given to Abraham - and his sons include both Isaac and Ishmael. The religious right also forgets that Ishmael was circumcized along with all the other males of Abraham's household. (I don't see any evidence that he was excluded from the promises made to his father, although the narrative makes it clear that the "royal" lineage goes through Isaac).

Finally - the religious right forgets that Israel was set aside so they could be What about building walls and shooting palestinians is "blessing?"

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khalas ---- this is a waste of time.


"...bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. education & free discussion are the antidotes of both. "

---- Thomas Jefferson

What about what the Palestinians have done daily with rocket attacks, car bombs, killing of innocents? There are two sides to the story and all I see is Israel finally having enough and hitting back. All the anti-semitism in the world just won't stop will it? Always saying it is Israel's fault. In 1949 the State of Israel was established by the US, Britain and Russia. Since them how many wars have the Palestinians started with Israel, how many wars have the rest of the Arab world started with Israel. How many times has Israel shown goodwill and given up land to the Palestinians? Always Israel showing the goodwill. How many terrorists are released into the world in exchange for one Israeli soldier?

Instead of watching the antisemitic ads and pictures, watch some real ones, like of Palestinian kids learning to kill and become suicide bombers.

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BODY PIERCING BY MODEL 1911

I don't invest in Gold, I invest in lead.

Affiliate Site: http://www.AHWbound.com

As I said, I'm not willing to call Israel a terrorist state.
(I think they're a dubious ally).

I do think that Israel has some serious problems, though ---
- specifically with their settling in occupied areas (a violation of international agreements)
- specifically with regard to human rights in Gaza.
(most humanitarian organizations agree that Gaza is a human rights disaster)

The people in Gaza have been conditioned to be angry and violent. The conditioning comes from a volatile mix of the stubborn policies of Hamas, combined with the counter-attacks from Israel - feeding off one another. Frankly, though - Israel's approach with Gaza (and vica versa) ensures there will be Hamas and Hezbollah for a very long time to come.

While I accept the videos you refer to are real - I also feel they are blown way out of proportion. Most people in Palestine want what you and I (and the average Israeli) want. Most of the videos that you see circulating the internet are copies of 3-4 original videos. There's also plenty of bogus and racist videos about Palestine. They've been copied and circulated for a long time - and seem to show up every time anti-Palestine sentiment is desirable or convenient.

I figure Gaza voting for Hamas is a little like West Virginia voting for Robert Byrd.

Byrd (former KKK member) changed his ways. I hope Hamas will, too.

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khalas ---- this is a waste of time.


"...bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. education & free discussion are the antidotes of both. "

---- Thomas Jefferson

Israel is a wealthy country, so why do we give them 3 billion dollars a year? And why aren't you tea baggers crying about that money being shipped overseas, Huh?

Welcome to the real world boys.
http://www.sprword.com/videos/aipac/

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGFrXAlHPA

Calm down- And listening to the AM radio in your pick up truck is not exactly "collecting information"...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGFrXAlHPA

Baileybud:

Where do you get your perspective from? Which media. I might make a suggestion that you check out Debka.com and compare the spins from each side. Or at least get the Israeli perspective on what is going on in the Middle East.

Unfortunately the situation is the same everywhere in the Arab world. On a different thread yesterday we were comparing the Moderate Muslim and the radical Muslim, and a lot of people stated that the Moderates need to do something about the radicals. In this case the Palestinians either have to do something about Hamas or stop trying to antagonize Israel. The rest of the Arab world has been using them as pawns for generations, and think of them as step-children, no offense to step-children intended.

_________________
BODY PIERCING BY MODEL 1911

I don't invest in Gold, I invest in lead.

Affiliate Site: http://www.AHWbound.com

Jordan and Egypt both have resolved their primary differences with Israel.

Israel sells diamonds in Dubai, and has helped develop the irrigation technologies utilized throughout Arabia in agriculture (the technology is re-marketed by the Swiss). They had a trade office in Doha until recently (it was closed in response to the attacks in Gaza --- Doha offered to re-open the office, and asked that it be allowed to help re-build Gaza (they were going to rebuild some schools). Israel refused, saying they were afraid that Doha's concrete could be used to build bunkers.

I'm very aware of Israel's position. As I said - I recognize their right to exist (there's really no way of reversing the clock hands). However - the right to exist is different from the right to persecute, marginalize, and oppress.

I don't spend much time with Debka. My sources include www.bitterlemons.org , www.csmonitor.com, and the Jerusalem Post.

I also have three fairly good friends from the West Bank - who frankly - don't give a rat's (butt) about politics. They simply want to live a reasonably decent life, and provide for their families.

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khalas ---- this is a waste of time.


"...bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. education & free discussion are the antidotes of both. "

---- Thomas Jefferson

Most of my friends around the West Bank feel very much the same. Sorry if I was responding too harshly, wasn't meant to be. I also read the Jerusalem Post, but much prefer Debka for analysis of the US as well as the Middle Eastern countries.

I can understand your perspective from working and living there, and respect it.

_________________
BODY PIERCING BY MODEL 1911

I don't invest in Gold, I invest in lead.

Affiliate Site: http://www.AHWbound.com